Money Matters
Money Matters
Outsmarting Scammers: How to Protect Your Money in the AI Era
Carmen Million from the Better Business Bureau and Adrienne, a senior fraud investigator, join host Kim Chapman to discuss the alarming rise in financial scams powered by artificial intelligence and how to protect yourself.
• Scammers are using AI to create convincing fake business websites that target vulnerable consumers
• Phone spoofing has evolved to mimic not just financial institutions but actual customer phone numbers
• It's not just seniors being targeted - younger generations are increasingly falling victim to scams
• Red flags include urgent requests, offers too good to be true, and requests for personal information
• Fear, greed, and manufactured urgency are psychological tactics scammers use to bypass critical thinking
• Financial institutions offer tools like card locking, transaction alerts, and enhanced authentication
• If scammed, immediately contact your financial institution, file a police report, and report to BBB Scam Tracker
• Always verify communications by contacting institutions directly through official channels, not links or numbers in suspicious messages
• Trust your instincts - that uneasy feeling when something doesn't seem right is often correct
Visit BBB.org/scamtracker to report scams and see what scams are active in your area. Use neighborsfcu.org/financial-wellness for more resources on protecting your finances.
Have an idea for a show or a question for Kim? Send us a text message
Welcome to Money Matters, the podcast that focuses on how to use the money you have, make the money you need and save the money you want – brought to you by Neighbors Federal Credit Union.
The information, opinions, and recommendations presented in this Podcast are for general information only and any reliance on the information provided in this Podcast is done at your own risk. This Podcast should not be considered professional advice.
Welcome to Money Matters, the podcast that focuses on how to use the money you have, make the money you need and save the money you want. Now here is your host, ms Kim.
Speaker 2:Chapman, welcome to another edition of Money Matters. Have you ever heard the saying sometimes you have to laugh to keep from crying? Well, these two ladies, that's all we've been doing is laughing this morning because, unfortunately, the subject that we're going to talk about often makes people cry, and that is being a victim of scams and frauds. It is running rampant, but now we're going to put our serious face on serious face, ladies, all right. And so, with me, of course, returning our expert guru of frauds and scams from the Better Business Bureau, ms Carmen Million Thank you, kim, for having me and, of course, our own in-house senior fraud investigator, ms Adrienne Incognito.
Speaker 4:Thank you, Kim, for having me again.
Speaker 2:So well, ladies? Yes, definitely, we're having a good time, some good conversation, but this is a subject that is really really serious, and with technology and AI, it seems to become scarier and scarier the more I read stories about individuals becoming victims of fraud. Even when I look at my own stuff, it's like, oh my God, is this real, is this not real? What can you click on? You know it's something that we have to talk about, and so I want to start with you, carmen, and just ask because I see you all the time talking about it on the local news stations what is the latest, greatest scam that you're seeing this week, this month?
Speaker 3:Well, first of all, ai is playing a big part in these scams. It can be a good tool if used in the right way, but unfortunately, scammers are using it as well, and one of the things that we're seeing which I haven't even done very many news releases on this is they're actually taking stealing information and pictures and website pages from businesses and they're trying to open up their own business by using the other company's information. For instance, there's a company called Rose Mobile Home Service Rose Harvey Mobile Homes and I say that because it's a scam company and what they did was they set up a website for people that can't afford their own home and can't really afford rent anymore, and they set up a website to sell mobile homes at a really good price. And what they were doing is they were saying we can move these mobile homes anywhere in the United States for $150. And it's using the same tactics that have been done in years.
Speaker 3:It's too good to be true. Unfortunately, they're targeting people who are one in need, but two who can least afford to lose those monies, and we have had people that have lost thousands of dollars by putting money down to hold one of these mobile homes and, of course, they never received the merchandise. So AI is basically mimicking legitimate businesses to scam consumers, and not only and we're finding it. We're on our third investigation right now on companies that are being spoofed in our area but targeted targeting consumers all over the United States, and so people need to know that when they go to the website or when they get a notice or whatever, just use common sense. If it sounds too good to be true, it is.
Speaker 2:And Adrienne, in terms of financial institution, is there anything in particular that you see an uptick in in terms of the types of scams or how criminals are using AI?
Speaker 4:I'll say, like what you're saying, with AI we've noticed that we've had a few cases. Let me say that a member will call well, we think or thought it was a member that called in. It's kind of going in conjunction with the spoofing of our credit union number and they're actually spoofing our member's number, calling in, trying to get well, providing information as much as they know, and asking certain amount to be transferred to another member who just happened to have opened an account recently and trying to get transfers done from that account to another account and unfortunately we took a loss. It was $2,000, but it was just weird that you know, we were aware of the spoofing with our number, but to have the actual member's number spoofed was very different and something we've been looking at and making sure we and what the problem is with that is what most people don't realize is there's more than one victim in the scam.
Speaker 3:The business is a victim, the consumer is a victim and, of course, the scammer is not even in the United States. In most cases they're just really savvy and now they're going to the next level. So people really have to be more diligent when they're dealing with anybody that they're not familiar with.
Speaker 2:So let's be even more transparent. You've used that term, spoofing. One of you maybe explain what spoofing is for somebody that may not realize what that term is.
Speaker 3:I would. In simple terms, they're basically mimicking or copying somebody's Facebook, their information, and pretending that they are that person. They're impersonating another company. Are that person? They're impersonating another company. They're impersonating another consumer to try to gain access to money accounts that sort of thing.
Speaker 2:And one of the things that probably, maybe even should have kicked off the episode is to catch somebody's attention. It's not just the elderly and seniors anymore. Talk to us a little bit about the age groups that you're seeing, even the professions. I know, carmen and I talk about this all the time that it's not your seniors anymore that are getting scammed, and often we take for granted that it can never happen to me.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean, if you had asked me the question, who were the target audience or who were the target victims years ago? I would have told you senior citizens. And now there is no line. Now we do show in our statistics that the younger generation are easier targets because they are more trusting and they grew up in the technology world. That doesn't mean they're savvy though. They're just used to it and they're more familiar with technology as opposed to us. Just if it doesn't sound good, don't do business with them, because they don't always have the expertise to define the difference between somebody who's trying to take advantage of you and somebody who's really trying to offer you a deal. So it is a younger generation. But honestly, with technology, anybody's a potential victim and I always tell people this I've said this 100 times it doesn't matter how smart you are, what your education is, what your age is, what your background is. If the situation is right and the timing is right, anybody can be a potential victim. You have to be your first line of defense.
Speaker 4:Absolutely, adrienne. And to add to that, with the younger generation, unfortunately it's a quick get money type of thing, I feel like in their brain. So anything that, like you say, it seems too good to be true. They're just quick to respond to it, see where it goes, and unfortunately they take the big hit with it.
Speaker 2:They love the sparkly, the idea that we can get rich quick. So then let's talk about what would be some good red flags, that something that you see or hear or somebody's calling you. What are some signs of red flags that, hey, this could be a scam?
Speaker 3:Well, I mean first of all I mean I'm sure Adrian could say this as well If somebody's calling you or texting you or emailing you and they're implying they're with your bank or your financial institution, don't assume that it's real. Okay, so just because they're telling you all the right things, you need to question it. Just use that as a red flag, Contact your financial institution directly and make sure that it is actually them that's contacting you. And, of course, the other things are just normal common sense things. If the offer sounds too good to be true, I still love the one where they contact you and you tell you that because you've paid your bills and you're a good person, you're going to get a grant from the government. The government can't even take care of themselves.
Speaker 2:Say that again.
Speaker 3:They can't take care. I mean really honestly. They're not going to send you money just because you've been. You know you've paid your bills on time. If it sounds too good to be true, it generally is. The other thing is is a lot of issues that we're finding is and this is kind of interesting because it is with seniors where they'll get a notice, supposedly from one of their friends, saying hey, I got this grant for $5,000. You need to apply immediately. And and they think it's because their friend contacted what they don't realize is their friends email or text or whatever have been hacked. Their friend list has been hacked and so all of their friends are getting that same message. So they're all potential victims, but the friend is a victim as well.
Speaker 4:I can tell a story my own mother.
Speaker 4:Unfortunately, she thought a relative was reaching out to her through Facebook Messenger and was telling her about this grant for teachers that you could, you know, get a grant or something for being a retired teacher, for all your service, and things like that, and stating that they did it as well.
Speaker 4:So you should try it.
Speaker 4:And unfortunately, she went as far as providing her copy of her license.
Speaker 4:She didn't give her her account information, but she did provide her social and she was scared to tell me, and I don't know what made her finally tell me one day when we were talking and I was just like, mom, are you serious? So you know, I told her, of course, call the bureaus to lock her account down and go change her license, because at the time she didn't have the real ID. So I was like, at least with that, with that change, if something was to happen to you know, you'll know that, OK, that was something that might be a scam or something may come up because now you have the real ID to tell the difference. And I also informed her to still contact her institution and maybe put her financial institution and put a passcode or something on her account just in case, Because you know so much of our regular information is out there and you know that's one way they do get it outside of the dark web and everything like that. So, just in case, just put a password on her account to be warned in case.
Speaker 3:I think that we just go back to the same thing. If it sounds too good to be true, it is. You just have to remember that. And I always tell people and this sounds really stupid and very simple but if you get a call or you see a message or whatever and you have that little feeling in your belly that it's not quite right and I think your mom could probably say that as well you need to listen to that instinct. It's never going to steer you wrong, but you have to know if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. Yes.
Speaker 2:And I want to tap into something else Adrienne mentioned. She said mom didn't even really want to tell you, but that seems to happen far too often. So what would you say to our consumers in terms of encouraging how important it is to report it, even if it's a matter of maybe they may not be able to reclaim their money, but it helps in an investigation and it could help to catch that criminal so that it doesn't happen to the next individual.
Speaker 3:Well, most of the consumers, especially elder consumers, that contact the Better Business Bureau, it's because they don't want to tell their family members, because they don't want to lose that control. They don't want, you know, to lose what they consider their freedom. And that's why it's really good for them to contact the Better Business Bureau, because we're not going to judge them, we're not going to, you know, try to take over their life or whatever they feel, but hopefully we can walk them off the ledge, teach them some things that they can do to protect themselves and not be afraid to talk to somebody, because that is the key, I promise you. If you talk to other people, you will find out that you're not one, not the only victim, but other people have been a target. But even more so than that, you might prevent one of your friends or family members from being a victim.
Speaker 3:And what Adrian was saying just proves what I said. It doesn't matter who you are. Anybody can be a potential victim if the timing of the situation is right. Or anybody can be a potential victim if the timing of the situation is right. You just have to be willing to talk about it. If you've been a victim, or if you've been a potential victim to try to save somebody else.
Speaker 2:So, adrienne, other scams, I know. When we think about financial institutions for me at least, one of the easiest ones to avoid is often I'll get a text message from a financial institution that I don't even have an account from. So those are the easy ones to say hey, I don't even have an account with XYZ Bank, I'm not going to even pay attention. But every now and then that scammer may hit it right in that oh, I do have an account or I do do business with this. So what are some other red flags in terms of financial institutions that consumers should be weary of?
Speaker 4:in terms of financial institutions that consumers should be weary of Right now. I'll say, like I said with the text messaging if they do hit it right and they say that neighbors is reaching out to you in reference to a charge that's pending, the question is usually did you do this, yes or no? And of course they'll say no, and then that's when the person is calling and from there is. I think it's two ways, cause in one way, their wording is getting better and you don't even realize you're answering it and providing them the information that they need. And you know. Other ways is you know, of course, they're asking for your online banking, and that's one thing you never give, because what's the point of setting up a password and username if you're just going to give it out to anybody? You know, and I get it.
Speaker 4:You know you're thinking it's your institution, but even us, we have that information already, so we would not ask you for that. So, um, you know, but again, just certain wording. They'll do to um, uh, get you to, uh, I'm sorry, get you to give that information up and from there, once they get access, that's it. And fortunately, yeah, the longer you take to report it, you know, even if it's not calling the bid abuse. But if you're not calling us to hopefully shut that account down, come in and do whatever necessary that you know we need you to do to get filing a police report, filling out the affidavit the greater your loss may be.
Speaker 3:And that's one of the first things we tell these consumers is contact your financial institution immediately, Hang up the phone with us and call them first, and then, if you want us to guide you further, you can do that. But that goes back to AI. We used to tell people look at the spelling, look at the.
Speaker 3:You know all the punctuations those little things that are off. Ai is protecting that. Now AI is taking care of that for them, so you don't have to worry about that. Unfortunately, it makes it harder for consumers to detect that it actually is not your banking or financial institution. But we always tell people it doesn't matter what they're telling you. You have to contact your financial institution and verify that it's actually them. Contact your financial institution and verify that it's actually them. And, just like Adrienne said, when they start asking for specific information, that warning bell should be going off because that's telling you right, there there's something wrong. And if, for some reason, you know we get this all the time. Well, I woke up from a nap and I was talking. You know everybody has an excuse of why they give that information. That's fine, it doesn't matter. Just take the steps immediately to resolve it.
Speaker 2:Yes, oh, absolutely so. With AI, of course, you know, being used for harm. What are some tools that are out there that consumers may be able to use to help minimize their risk of being, you know, a victim, whether it's financial scam or any other type of scam, of being a victim, whether it's financial?
Speaker 3:scam or any other type of scam. Well, I mean, I'm going to tell you. The first thing is, you have to use your own brain your own common sense.
Speaker 3:That's the very first thing. But you also, whether it's getting texts or messages on your phone, talk to your telephone company, whoever you have your service through, see what tools they have to help protect you, to even block some of these calls, because with technology today they can change the numbers or whatever they're contacting you from. Also, talk to your bank and see what tools they have to protect you. You don't know unless you ask. But those are the two simple things I think immediately of.
Speaker 4:Yes, I agree there's a lot of you know third party options out there, but I know coming soon we have a system called Careful that we'll be implementing and putting out there for our members. I don't want to say too much yet, but it is coming and I think it is a great tool that our members will have to hopefully be educated and just know more about fraud and all the things that's out there.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we tell people all the time. You know you can have all the laws you want, if you can't enforce them, they're useless. So you have to rely on the people you're doing business with to help protect you. But you have to also on the people you're doing business with to help protect you. But you have to also let them know what your needs are and what their opportunities are and to help protect you, because they want to keep you as a customer and they want to protect you. But you also, again, have to use common sense and before you fall for something, you always need to check first. When in doubt, check it out.
Speaker 2:Yes, Look, and I know that of course the news is always going to emphasize the bad stories, the horror stories. You know the opportunities where victims lost everything. But of course I know that there have also been some success stories. So just kind of talk us through what that process looks like. If somebody becomes a victim of scam, what's going to happen if they call the BBB or go online to the BBB?
Speaker 3:Well, the first thing we want to do is find out what it is and if it really is a scam. A lot of people use the word scam. It may be a disagreement with the business or it could be a scam. A scam is where somebody that you don't know is trying to take advantage of you. So we want to make sure it's a scam first of all.
Speaker 3:Again, if they've given, we want to know what they've provided to the scammer. Did they give personal information? Did they give you their social security number? That will help us direct them. We're going to direct them first of all to their financial institution. We're then going to direct them to local law enforcement so they can file a police report and then we're going to tell them. Depending on what it is in reference to, you can go to our website at bbborg backslash scam tracker and then there's also a government, ic3, which is a internet scam organization that helps people with those. But we also are there to educate people that if they gave money, if they gave their personal information and they lost money, chances of them getting that money back are slim. And if you voluntarily gave that information, you can't expect anybody else to reimburse you, your financial institution anybody. You have to understand and we're kind of brutal with this you have to understand that is a expensive lesson, but let it be a lesson and make sure you don't make that mistake again.
Speaker 4:I can give an example. There was a member he deposited a check for I think it was like $6,800. And with me doing my process and everything, the funds were released and once I scanned and looked at the check, I was like something seems weird about this check. So I gave him a call and the other thing was because he had just withdrew all the money that day. So that already made me think, okay, yeah, something is going on here. So I called him to get the explanation of where the check came from and what was it for. So he told me that he had won a sweepstakes. He had won a car.
Speaker 4:Now, granted, the check was a personal check and to say that you're saying that this was a sweepstakes from a company or whoever it was through, that already was like okay, red flag. So then, so I asked him what did he do with the funds? And he was saying I was no, what are? Yeah, what did he do with the funds? He was sending it off to the person to pay for the shipping fees and the taxes and, yeah, for the car. So I was like, well, how did you send it?
Speaker 4:Unfortunately, some of it he did send through MoneyGram. The other, he got a US postal money order and was shipping the next day to the address he was provided. So I quickly told him please go to the post office because at this time it had closed. So I was like go first thing in the morning, try to see if you can stop that you know from that postage from being delivered, or at least seeing if you could cancel the money order so whoever may get it, they can't do anything with it. So fortunately he was able to save half the money and bring it back and deposit into the account because the next day the check did return. So you know it didn't save everything but it did save him some of what he would have, what he does have to pay back to neighbors.
Speaker 3:And we spend more time than you would think convincing these people. If you receive a check that you don't expect, you didn't ask for and you deposit it, don't spend the money, give it a week or two to make sure it's going to clear and then make that decision. But you're probably still going to be assessed in a SIF fees and the bank can't eat every mistake that you make. And that's a decision you make and you have to protect yourself and the bank can only do so much.
Speaker 2:A decision you make and you have to protect yourself, and the bank can only do so much. Oh, absolutely. And earlier we were talking about some of the red flags and of course you know if it sounds too good to be true and things of that nature. I wanted to talk a little bit about something else, another tactic that they use in terms of that sense of urgency. Do you have a lot of reports that that's why they gave into the pressure?
Speaker 3:Well, there are several reasons that people give into the pressure. First of all, there is a sense of urgency. The sweepstakes, it's a now or never deal. If you don't make this decision now, we're going to move on and give it to somebody else and it's going to be your loss. Another big motivating factor that people victimize is fear. You know a lot of times you'll get these things where they say it's the IRS or it's a government agency who's not afraid of the IRS, and if you don't make this payment immediately, that they're going to have a bench warrant for your arrest. You can't be arrested for debt you owe and if you committed fraud, that's a different story. But fear, greed and the urgency are three good reasons why people fall victim and the urgency are three good reasons why people fall victim.
Speaker 4:I agree, even, like you said, with the text messages. They're thinking because usually it's a large amount. They don't want that amount to come out of their account, so that creates that fear, and want to hurry up and just respond without fully thinking it through. So, yeah, it's a fear thing.
Speaker 3:It is fear and people are. We've had people call us crying because they feel like they're going to get arrested and we have to walk them down and like, talk it through and make them and once we get them to think clearly, then they realize okay, they've been a victim.
Speaker 2:So clearly, education is definitely the key. So what are those tools again, even after becoming a victim that are available to help in the future? For example, often you'll see in the news if somebody has become a victim of credit card scam or a debit card scam, they go and freeze their credit. Are there other tools that you might recommend or resources that are available for individuals that have become victims of scams?
Speaker 4:Well with neighbors. Since you mentioned debit cards and credit cards, we do have a feature where you can lock your card until you can at least get in touch with your credit union to see if whatever is going on is happening. I have a story for that. A relative she.
Speaker 2:Your family's going to put you out at the next family reunion.
Speaker 4:We all have them. We all have them. So just to say that it could be, you know, someone as personal, as a relative, that still can be scammed. You know, outside of people you may not know but and they still, you know, get fearful or anything like that. But she, it was after hours and she banked with neighbors. She knew I worked at neighbors.
Speaker 4:She called and was saying that a transaction cleared her account from Walmart and she's like I haven't been to Walmart, not at Walmart now. So I told her well, do you have the feature? Do you have the app uploaded on your phone? And she was like well, I have the feature. Uh, do you have the app, uh, uploaded on your phone? And she was like well, I have the regular this was before we combined but I have the regular app, but I don't have the card um services app I forgot what it was car ballet, that's it and um. So I sold her to download that and once she did that she was able to lock it so more transactions couldn't come through. But just, you know, those simple things like that can help prevent. And of course, always, you know, with the mobile deposits or just mobile banking in general, you know still never provide your password or username to anyone.
Speaker 3:And that's why it's so important that you have a good relationship with your financial institution is so that you want to know what their services are and you may not remember I don't even remember what mine are but if I have something like that, I want to call somebody and find out. You know how am I going to be protected? What tools do you have? And that may be where you decide what bank or what institution you want to do business with is how they're going to protect you.
Speaker 3:I know that one of the accounts we have you know sometimes if there's an odd amount that comes out that's not used to, we'll get an alert is this you and I don't ever answer it. I go to my banking institution and do that and verify it. But you have to protect yourself. But you also have to be willing to ask what tools are available, because I know, just like anybody else, we'll tell people but they may not remember, or we do alert stories and people still call us and you think, well, they didn't see the story. You know, but that happens. But you still have to be your first line of defense. You have to call your financial institution and see what tools they have to protect you.
Speaker 2:And so, finally, you mentioned IC3, and that's at least one avenue that continues to do investigation that may be helpful for somebody that's been a victim of scams, any other resources that someone that has been a victim of scam can look to, besides BBB and IC3, in terms of help.
Speaker 3:Well, I mean, it depends on the scam and I'll be honest with you. I've met with the FBI, I've met with the Federal Trade Commission and other agencies. If you've lost $1,000 on a scam, they're not going to touch that because they have bigger things and that's unfortunate. But logging your scam at the BBB and IC3 allows agencies. Anybody can go on there and see what is hitting the area now. But it kind of allows you to know what's going on and if that happens to you, you're aware of it. Again, it's self-awareness, but there are a lot of agencies out there. It also depends on you know if it's. Most of these scams are perpetrated by people that are not in the United States. They don't follow the rules, they don't care. Are not in the United States, they don't follow the rules, they don't care. So, honestly, other than those two things, the best way to prevent it is to protect yourself, educate yourself, ask questions, never provide information. Be your best protector.
Speaker 2:And I guess we can never say it, you know too many times because we say it over and over again yet scams continue to happen and so until we can become bigger vessels, we'll just keep having these conversations and keep reminding our consumers, you know, not to give out your information, be very, very diligent and definitely, you know we all want to wake up and have that phone call and says that we've won a million dollars, but, you know, really is, if it sounds too good to be true, it really is. So I definitely want to thank Ms Carman for coming back and sharing this information I know that it's definitely helping somebody and, of course, our senior fraud investigator for giving us a little inside tip of yes, these things actually happen. It can happen right here in Baton Rouge and it can happen to you.
Speaker 4:So thank you ladies, thank you, thank you, happen right here in Baton Rouge, and it can happen to you. So thank you, ladies, thank you.
Speaker 1:Thank you. It's time for Blueprint Building Blocks Small changes that lead to big financial wins. Let's stack up for success.
Speaker 2:Pause before you click If a call, text or email feels urgent or too good to be true. Stop Scammers thrive on making you rush. Turn on your tools. Use transaction alerts those are really, really helpful Card controls and spam blocking apps to stay ahead of fraud. And then credit beats debit Credit cards usually offer stronger protection if fraud happens. Use them for online or those large purchases. And then, of course, act immediately If you suspect a scam. Shut down your card in your mobile app, call your financial institution and report it to the police and the BBB scam tracker.
Speaker 1:That's a wrap on today's Blueprint Building Blocks. Stay on track with your financial journey. Subscribe to the Money Matters podcast and visit neighborsfcuorg. Slash financial wellness no-transcript.
